A "female" boxer and a situation that should bring more clarity and compassion to the arguments over gender ideology (but won't because, hey, why solve a problem when you can exploit it?).
Thank you for another thoughtful essay. The Olympics are one of the two places a man can beat up a woman legally and get cheered on. The other place is in the Muslim society.
"And if we were a decent society, willing to work with nuance instead of allowing it to be hijacked “for the cause” we could sit down and have a sane discussion"
So long as we continue to argue over whether or not Will Thomas would wear a NOT A DUDE swimsuit ironically, there's no space for a reasonable discussion on where Imane Khelif falls on the spectrum.
People like Thomas ate that whole intellectual space - and as a result sucked any sympathy we might have for people suffering so right out of this whole thing. It must be a horrible life outside the ring.
So yeah - we're not a, as you say, decent society.
"And that is the tragedy. People like Khelif deserve sympathy. But the “trans movement” has pushed us to an “all or nothing” point when it comes to sports, and people like Khelif get caught up in a situation they did nothing to create."
And I hadn't gotten here quite yet but of course you had. 😉
To be contrarian, I say eliminate separate gender competition and consolidate them into one. Starting at grade school and on through to college and the pros. Feminists and Democrats have been calling for an equal playing field and I say give it to them in spades. Same field, same time, best athletes on it. Will that mean girls no longer get to play competitive sports? Yup. But hey, the Feminists and Democratic will be thrilled to gain so much inclusion and equality (for thee very very few girls that make it). And will they get injured? Yup. But hey, young men have been getting conscripted here and getting shot to hell by the hundreds of thousands; I say give the female Democrats a turn to be included and equalized in harms way. Maybe after 10 years of real inclusion and equality, they’ll stfu and vote smarter.
"So", the philosopher queried, "What is female? Today? How can we ascertain exactly which characteristics, what measurement can help us determine whether any particular physiology is female, or male, or somewhere on an as yet undefined spectrum?"
Poor philosopher! As we watch our "western liberal democracies" crumble around us, and questions like, "What is a woman?", prove too difficult for the Supreme court, we are seemingly faced with not only the lack of answers, but with the seeming inability to even agree on a question.
Move over, Andy; I’m joining you in not watching. I used to buy Wheaties cereal because I liked it; haven’t bought it in a year now because of how bias they are with who they put on the box.
As the Olympics continues to destroy its credibility, interest in it is rapidly declining. The only way, as I see it, the domination and brutality of men who like beating up women will only end when scientists develop powerful boxing robots with XX chromosomes. Of course, women will no longer compete in events like weightlifting, boxing, or wrestling, but I look forward to a time when rock 'em sock 'em robots beat the snot out of the cheating gay "athletes".
I don't think I can be objective about this right now. In a different time, sure, I'd be willing to consider the complexities of DSD. Right now, I'm grumpy about the shitshow in England, and I'm constantly suspicious about the Powers That Be trying to inject more narrative programming into my mind.
Hey Cliff, It seems to me that the UK never recovered well from WWI. They lost a huge number of their best young men in England and right across their “kingdom”. They lost great men, treasure and with it power and prestige. They were on the winning side of both great wars of course but they were Pyrrhic victories for them as one can see their standing in 1917 versus 100 years later. They are replacing their straight white males and it began in earnest over 100 years ago.
WWI and WWII definitely seemed to take something out of them. I also think they undermined themselves after the wars through a policy of unrestrained "modernization." (I recommend the books "Real England" by Paul Kingsnorth and "H is for Hawk" by Helen McDonald on this topic.)
1. Where is the evidence Khelif has Swyer Syndrome?
2. Khelif could have Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome which exosts on a spectrum ....
"...The symptoms of androgen insensitivity depend on the type. Individuals with complete androgen insensitivity are XY women. Because their bodies are completely unresponsive to testosterone, they are born with normal-appearing female genitalia. As such, complete androgen insensitivity may not be diagnosed until puberty. When these girls reach puberty, they do not menstruate. This is because they do not have a uterus. They also do not have pubic or underarm hair, because the growth of this hair is controlled by testosterone. They may be taller than other girls but generally have normal breast development. Because they do not have a uterus, they are infertile.
The symptoms of partial androgen insensitivity are more variable. At the time of birth, individuals may have genitals that appear almost completely female to almost normally male. They can also appear anywhere in between. Symptoms of PAIS in individuals who are characterized as males at the time of birth include:
Micropenis
Hypospadias: a urethral opening midway up the penis rather than at the tip. This is a common birth defect, affecting one out of 150 to 300 male births.
Cryptorchidism: where the testicles have few or no germ cells. Individuals with cryptorchidism are more susceptible to testicular cancers.
Breast growth during puberty
Individuals with PAIS who are characterized as females at birth may have an enlarged clitoris that grows at the time of puberty. They may also experience fused labia at the time of puberty. To understand this, it helps to know that the labia and scrotum are homologous structures. This means they originate from the same tissue. However, they develop differently depending on hormone exposure. The penis and clitoris are also homologous structures. ..."
Lastly, ... "compassion signalling" demonstrates a bias!
I'm not really sure what your point is here. First, I said "for the sake of argument." I have no idea what Khelif's DNA is. I guess you missed that part.
Second, there is no such thing *scientifically* as an XY woman or an XY female. XY is the very antithesis of female. Whether or not someone born with XY chromosomes is a woman is a philosophical discussion. I think in a case like you described above, where they have female genitalia (nonfunctioning as it is) and have been raised female, I personally would consider them women for most purposes. But that's my perspective. It is not everyone's. And it certainly doesn't seem to be that of a lot of the women participating in the Olympics.
I am not signaling compassion. I actually have compassion, which is the reason I wrote this article to begin with instead of jumping on the "no men in women's sports no matter what" bandwagon. I cannot imagine what it would be like to find out that you were not biologically female and then to have your life's goal taken away from you on that basis. I am willing to put myself in that situation mentally and suggest that we need to treat this subject with nuance instead of perhaps a blind rule about nobody with XY chromosomes participating in women's sports. I am also angry at men who pretend to be women just to compete in women's sports because they want to win, which is the case I would say almost definitively with someone like William/Lia Thomas. They make life much more complicated for the very rare people who are born with more complicated biology.
Pretty sure that most of the other women in the Ivy League pool that Thomas competed in voted for Democrats and were outspoken about men and women being equal, as well as the need for maximum DEI. Seems they really didn’t object until they lost to him. Ivy League is about as woke and hypocritical as it gets. I’d love to see every male freshman there identify as female and roll everyone of their sports. 😂😂. They were all about wanting girls on boys teams but now bitch when the reverse happens. Embrace DEI! :D
Thank you for another thoughtful essay. The Olympics are one of the two places a man can beat up a woman legally and get cheered on. The other place is in the Muslim society.
Oh, good point.
"And if we were a decent society, willing to work with nuance instead of allowing it to be hijacked “for the cause” we could sit down and have a sane discussion"
So long as we continue to argue over whether or not Will Thomas would wear a NOT A DUDE swimsuit ironically, there's no space for a reasonable discussion on where Imane Khelif falls on the spectrum.
People like Thomas ate that whole intellectual space - and as a result sucked any sympathy we might have for people suffering so right out of this whole thing. It must be a horrible life outside the ring.
So yeah - we're not a, as you say, decent society.
https://rolltidebama.com/threads/not-a-dude.562109/
"And that is the tragedy. People like Khelif deserve sympathy. But the “trans movement” has pushed us to an “all or nothing” point when it comes to sports, and people like Khelif get caught up in a situation they did nothing to create."
And I hadn't gotten here quite yet but of course you had. 😉
To be contrarian, I say eliminate separate gender competition and consolidate them into one. Starting at grade school and on through to college and the pros. Feminists and Democrats have been calling for an equal playing field and I say give it to them in spades. Same field, same time, best athletes on it. Will that mean girls no longer get to play competitive sports? Yup. But hey, the Feminists and Democratic will be thrilled to gain so much inclusion and equality (for thee very very few girls that make it). And will they get injured? Yup. But hey, young men have been getting conscripted here and getting shot to hell by the hundreds of thousands; I say give the female Democrats a turn to be included and equalized in harms way. Maybe after 10 years of real inclusion and equality, they’ll stfu and vote smarter.
"Maybe after 10 years of real inclusion and equality, they’ll stfu and vote smarter."
"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard.
- H.L. Mencken
😂😂😂😂
"So", the philosopher queried, "What is female? Today? How can we ascertain exactly which characteristics, what measurement can help us determine whether any particular physiology is female, or male, or somewhere on an as yet undefined spectrum?"
Poor philosopher! As we watch our "western liberal democracies" crumble around us, and questions like, "What is a woman?", prove too difficult for the Supreme court, we are seemingly faced with not only the lack of answers, but with the seeming inability to even agree on a question.
Every one should believe in something.
I believe I'll have another beer.
And continue not watching the Olympics.
I haven't watched the Olympics in years, summer or winter, but then I don't watch sports.
And you're right: we can't even agree on the question or how to define the basic terms.
Every one should believe in something.
I believe I'll have another beer."
I'll drink to that! 🍻
"And continue not watching the Olympics."
Way ahead of you, pal.
Move over, Andy; I’m joining you in not watching. I used to buy Wheaties cereal because I liked it; haven’t bought it in a year now because of how bias they are with who they put on the box.
My senior yearbook picture caption was, I kid you not, "I want to be on a Wheatie's box."
https://tinyurl.com/2jujc43u
https://tinyurl.com/ykn5pers
Seems less appealing now...
https://tinyurl.com/mec8uu6h
"biased"
"But you see, this is where the lie comes in. They may be the only biologically transgender people."
Oh, snap.
As the Olympics continues to destroy its credibility, interest in it is rapidly declining. The only way, as I see it, the domination and brutality of men who like beating up women will only end when scientists develop powerful boxing robots with XX chromosomes. Of course, women will no longer compete in events like weightlifting, boxing, or wrestling, but I look forward to a time when rock 'em sock 'em robots beat the snot out of the cheating gay "athletes".
"As the Olympics continues to destroy its credibility"
Break Dancing. Freaking Break Dancing is an Olympic Sport. *our Greek progenitors weep*
https://x.com/iowahawkblog/status/664089892599631872?lang=en
Rumor has it that the next Olympics will include the ever-popular "Quarter bounce"
and craps.
I'm not watching the Olympics anymore until Team Dodge Jarts is a sport.
Is that anything like Blindfolded Lawn Darts? I'd watch that, provided there are enough players in a circle to keep it exciting.
Blindfolded? Maybe only if they play in a shower stall. I don't want all this missin' stuff!
Just keep reminding yourself that it's all in your mind and you'll be happy all the time.
I don't think I can be objective about this right now. In a different time, sure, I'd be willing to consider the complexities of DSD. Right now, I'm grumpy about the shitshow in England, and I'm constantly suspicious about the Powers That Be trying to inject more narrative programming into my mind.
I don't blame you.
Hey Cliff, It seems to me that the UK never recovered well from WWI. They lost a huge number of their best young men in England and right across their “kingdom”. They lost great men, treasure and with it power and prestige. They were on the winning side of both great wars of course but they were Pyrrhic victories for them as one can see their standing in 1917 versus 100 years later. They are replacing their straight white males and it began in earnest over 100 years ago.
WWI and WWII definitely seemed to take something out of them. I also think they undermined themselves after the wars through a policy of unrestrained "modernization." (I recommend the books "Real England" by Paul Kingsnorth and "H is for Hawk" by Helen McDonald on this topic.)
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing ....
1. Where is the evidence Khelif has Swyer Syndrome?
2. Khelif could have Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome which exosts on a spectrum ....
"...The symptoms of androgen insensitivity depend on the type. Individuals with complete androgen insensitivity are XY women. Because their bodies are completely unresponsive to testosterone, they are born with normal-appearing female genitalia. As such, complete androgen insensitivity may not be diagnosed until puberty. When these girls reach puberty, they do not menstruate. This is because they do not have a uterus. They also do not have pubic or underarm hair, because the growth of this hair is controlled by testosterone. They may be taller than other girls but generally have normal breast development. Because they do not have a uterus, they are infertile.
The symptoms of partial androgen insensitivity are more variable. At the time of birth, individuals may have genitals that appear almost completely female to almost normally male. They can also appear anywhere in between. Symptoms of PAIS in individuals who are characterized as males at the time of birth include:
Micropenis
Hypospadias: a urethral opening midway up the penis rather than at the tip. This is a common birth defect, affecting one out of 150 to 300 male births.
Cryptorchidism: where the testicles have few or no germ cells. Individuals with cryptorchidism are more susceptible to testicular cancers.
Breast growth during puberty
Individuals with PAIS who are characterized as females at birth may have an enlarged clitoris that grows at the time of puberty. They may also experience fused labia at the time of puberty. To understand this, it helps to know that the labia and scrotum are homologous structures. This means they originate from the same tissue. However, they develop differently depending on hormone exposure. The penis and clitoris are also homologous structures. ..."
Lastly, ... "compassion signalling" demonstrates a bias!
I'm not really sure what your point is here. First, I said "for the sake of argument." I have no idea what Khelif's DNA is. I guess you missed that part.
Second, there is no such thing *scientifically* as an XY woman or an XY female. XY is the very antithesis of female. Whether or not someone born with XY chromosomes is a woman is a philosophical discussion. I think in a case like you described above, where they have female genitalia (nonfunctioning as it is) and have been raised female, I personally would consider them women for most purposes. But that's my perspective. It is not everyone's. And it certainly doesn't seem to be that of a lot of the women participating in the Olympics.
I am not signaling compassion. I actually have compassion, which is the reason I wrote this article to begin with instead of jumping on the "no men in women's sports no matter what" bandwagon. I cannot imagine what it would be like to find out that you were not biologically female and then to have your life's goal taken away from you on that basis. I am willing to put myself in that situation mentally and suggest that we need to treat this subject with nuance instead of perhaps a blind rule about nobody with XY chromosomes participating in women's sports. I am also angry at men who pretend to be women just to compete in women's sports because they want to win, which is the case I would say almost definitively with someone like William/Lia Thomas. They make life much more complicated for the very rare people who are born with more complicated biology.
Pretty sure that most of the other women in the Ivy League pool that Thomas competed in voted for Democrats and were outspoken about men and women being equal, as well as the need for maximum DEI. Seems they really didn’t object until they lost to him. Ivy League is about as woke and hypocritical as it gets. I’d love to see every male freshman there identify as female and roll everyone of their sports. 😂😂. They were all about wanting girls on boys teams but now bitch when the reverse happens. Embrace DEI! :D
link: https://www.verywellhealth.com/androgen-insensitivity-4173975