Insufficient answer, Lib. It doesn’t address the dilemma that if Nature is about survival of the species, why would individuals in a species choose not to survive and not to pro-create? Good question! The answer is two fold; a) humans have a soul and so are different than all other animals, and b) some people who prefer suicide and not to pro-create may have some kind of instinct or understanding to know that the human species would survive better without their DNA in it.
I was about to say the same. Usually I comment throughout and this one just requires more than my typical replies.
This is really good. I've always known that Overpopulation a la Malthus and Erlich was overstated, while I think the greatest argument for "replacement rate" is to make sure that there are always enough workers to carry the load for those beyond or unable to work, which is also, to me, not the reason for ME to work, but that seems to have reflexively caused my intellectual guard to be down and haven't really thought this through.
"there are always enough workers to carry the load for those beyond or unable to work."
I'm not really criticizing you because this is a very pragmatic and brutally realistic take, and it's a truth that's necessary to point out.
However, the fact that this is what it boils down to is one of the ways that the system is so unhealthy. If we're all just cogs in a wheel going round and round . . . that can get pretty depressing.
I don’t know about this cog stuff. Seems to me that our earthly life is not even as big as the tiniest speck of dust given how vast we think the universe is. And our time here, already severely compromised by imposing our made up linear restrictions on it, is less than a fleeting microsecond. So instead of a cog, I think we’re a tiny speck that exists for less than what the universe perceives as a second. Hope you feel better! 😂
I believe devices, their messages and our leadership messages are causing our children to despair. They are unaware of the promise they bring and therefore are unaware of the promise any new life brings. They are told we are careening towards 'destruction', 'annihilation' and a bleak future. Who would want to bring a child into that? And they're told that terminating a pregnancy is a human right. The pressures and messages are coming from a variety of different sources. Add to that healthy young people who are dropping dead of coronary incidents (take what you want from that) and turbo cancers, and our child bearers are feeling really desperate. That's all it takes. Messages.
Lil, great article! You didn't share a lot, and I'm not asking you to unless that's what you want, but I'm thankful that you found your way to the other side of whatever you went thru. I'm glad you had the support that you needed. I enjoy your articles so much!
It's a tough subject, and while I wish I could say I know where I stand, I think it must be decided on an individual basis. When I heard Canada was ready to allow younger people to do it (I understand they put a hold on that) I thought it was ridiculous. I too read the article about ter Beek, and I understood her views on some of it. But my faith tells me that it's God's decision when we leave this world, not ours, so for the most part I guess I'm against it. We have no way of knowing how God intends to use us, and if we cash out early on our own, we may be missing something that only He knows would have happened. It could be something truly wonderful. So I guess my faith tells me that I would not do this, but I can't speak for what others do. Just please leave the children alone!
I find it sad that no one could help her find meaning enough in her life for her to see something beyond the things that are wrong, that her existence has purpose.
I do as well. She didn't look so miserable in the pics they shared of her, and they said she had a boyfriend. I guess he wasn't enough to make life bearable for her.
Hey Pat, I agree with you. As a Catholic, I believe it’s God’s choice on when to move our life to the next home. Free’s up a lot of needless worry. Regarding having children, I am 9th of 10 kids and we grew up quite poor but I am glad my parents didn’t let that stop them. They had much less expectations of wealth than most Americans today.
Sounds like a good Catholic family! 😂 I'm only 3rd of 4 kids in my family, and we didn't grow up wealthy either. But I've not had any children myself. Married a man that had 3 already, and didn't want any more. There are days when I regret this, but nothing I can do about it at my age. For all I know I may not have had any if he had wanted more. Only God knows that.
I’m glad you had the blessing of multiple siblings. I feel for the children today without siblings, with few if any cousins. Who will they turn to as they get older and have no blood relatives?
I don't have any kids, currently, and I'm not really sympathetic to conservative exhortations that I should stop being selfish and have kids, to save civilization or whatever.
It's taken my entire adult life to get to a point of mental well-being, rather than living through a constant cycle of depression, anxiety, and feelings of worthlessness. I'm enjoying where I am, and I don't particularly want to put myself through the meatgrinder of parenthood.
And from the outside, it looks like a meatgrinder. Childhood seems to have basically become a nightmare torture-factory hell-carnival, leaving parents exhausted and kids suicidal. I'll pass.
I think there are a number of complex reasons why, but the Internet is central to a lot of it. (I'm lucky in that my childhood occurred before the Internet. Whatever my problems are, they would have been much worse if I'd been plopped down in front of a screen as a baby.)
We've decided that life ought to consist of sitting in a room, staring at an endless series of images on a computer. The Silicon Valley tech moguls are openly trying to replace us with AI, and we're treated as factory-farmed animals for marketing and advertising.
It's modern society's inherent nihilism finally showing its true face. Bertrand Russell said we ought to build the soul's habitation upon unyielding despair. Well, here it is. This is what it looks like.
The assisted suicide topic has been around for literally decades. I remember hearing discussions when I was young. It’s always come from the genesis of a situation you described on your friend. Of course the antithesis then was if you’re a believer the last act you commit on earth was breaking the “thou shalt not kill” commandment.
Fast forward to recent history. Now a person suffering doesn’t matter as much to some as the cost of keeping them alive. “Grandpa doesn’t even know what’s going on and it’s sucking his money right out of his account “,is what you’re likely to hear if the conversant is being honest. I know this to be true…I had the conversation two weeks ago. There are two competing teams. The government wants to tax Grandpa’s holdings and the heirs want to hide them so the government will pay for care and they can take possession of the stuff. As I said previously, my best friend is an attorney. I know what he deals in.
The individual you referenced has been the subject of many articles. I first heard about her from my wife who sees this sort of stuff on her Buzzfeed websites as she searches out videos of people saving dogs. She reads the stuff so I don’t have to. Conversely I tell her what’s going on in Ukraine. My own evaluation of her is that this is her 15 minutes of fame that we are all promised. I think she’s being used by these publications for their 2024 Newagey stories. She “can’t go anymore, and the healers she looked to for help can’t.. so of course the only thing left is to turn on the gas”. I suspect she doesn’t really want to try. Living is so much work. I guess it’s nice she has a boyfriend to hold her hand at the end. It appears he didn’t do her much good otherwise. If she had any pets hopefully she has provided for them. I would submit that in your case you wanted help. I know you said there were those around you but you let them help. Therein lies the difference.
The population thing is pretty simple. In my experience you “do the thing”, or “afford the thing” that is your highest priority. If buying a home, two nice cars, or four big screen tvs are your priorities that’s what you’ll do. If you want to put off having kids because “I need to take care of me”, then that’s what happens. It’s all a matter of commitment (that word again). The human race isn’t going to end. All races are not suffering from replacement issues. The U.S. will change significantly though. The “elites” talking about population issues are doing everything they can to make it happen. Witness their food destruction strategies. Anyone I’ve ever talked to who told me there were too many people, I’ve given the same answer. Start by ending yourself. The conversation usually stops there. Soon they’ll probably be able to do that in a kill room at the Mall of America. That will be great. The survivors can all go to the food court afterwards.
Love your points and arguments. I have a Similar response to those that advocate for us engaging in a war; start by going over yourself. Regarding the friction of holding money or losing it to taxes; i’m there now and trying to learn more about how to setup trusts and gifts for my kids. Gov already takes about 35% and is trying to make it 50%.
Yup. They’ll suck you dry. Information is easy to find. Just do the thing though. A lot of people think they have a lot of time…right up to the time they don’t.
I think you have noted that some of your objectives for writing were about honing your skills and hoping to make the world a more thoughtful and better place; and that numbers of readers were secondary. Since there is little I can do help with the foster set of objectives, I try to help with the secondary ones by reposting, adding comments that I intend to be of value or at least entertaining, and to encourage others to comment. My “likes” and comments are genuine though; I do it for your sake. I think you have very valuable messages and that the world benefits when more people read them. Any advice on what I can do to improve my objectives via-a-via your Substack, let me know.
That's a great compliment, if I'm reading it right. I'm tired. I've spent a chunk of the day working my way through the media for Friday. I'm a bit loopy.
Why are suicide and desire not to have children much more prevalent? Here’s mine;
lack of hope in the future as evidenced for example by RCP polls on direction of country
Lack of religious faith after decades of public schools and academia Communist indoctrination that Christ the King does not exist
Desire not to bring children into a world that the middle-class parents already can’t afford without both working more than full time
Insufficient answer, Lib. It doesn’t address the dilemma that if Nature is about survival of the species, why would individuals in a species choose not to survive and not to pro-create? Good question! The answer is two fold; a) humans have a soul and so are different than all other animals, and b) some people who prefer suicide and not to pro-create may have some kind of instinct or understanding to know that the human species would survive better without their DNA in it.
They have found genetic components to mental illness. So . . . your theory may have some weight.
"The other problem, particularly in a capitalist system"
Customer retention must be tough in this industry.
I know. Yikes.
Good post.
You raise some excellent points, on some of which we agree, though not all.
I'll need to construct my response properly so that I know my point(s) is/are clear, so...more to come.
Looking forward to it.
"I'll need to construct my response properly"
I was about to say the same. Usually I comment throughout and this one just requires more than my typical replies.
This is really good. I've always known that Overpopulation a la Malthus and Erlich was overstated, while I think the greatest argument for "replacement rate" is to make sure that there are always enough workers to carry the load for those beyond or unable to work, which is also, to me, not the reason for ME to work, but that seems to have reflexively caused my intellectual guard to be down and haven't really thought this through.
I am now.
"there are always enough workers to carry the load for those beyond or unable to work."
I'm not really criticizing you because this is a very pragmatic and brutally realistic take, and it's a truth that's necessary to point out.
However, the fact that this is what it boils down to is one of the ways that the system is so unhealthy. If we're all just cogs in a wheel going round and round . . . that can get pretty depressing.
Yeah, I'm not condoning either point - I think they're both wrong without solid support.
But I definitely have no desire to be a cog.
I don’t know about this cog stuff. Seems to me that our earthly life is not even as big as the tiniest speck of dust given how vast we think the universe is. And our time here, already severely compromised by imposing our made up linear restrictions on it, is less than a fleeting microsecond. So instead of a cog, I think we’re a tiny speck that exists for less than what the universe perceives as a second. Hope you feel better! 😂
And you people wonder why I drink. *sigh*
I believe devices, their messages and our leadership messages are causing our children to despair. They are unaware of the promise they bring and therefore are unaware of the promise any new life brings. They are told we are careening towards 'destruction', 'annihilation' and a bleak future. Who would want to bring a child into that? And they're told that terminating a pregnancy is a human right. The pressures and messages are coming from a variety of different sources. Add to that healthy young people who are dropping dead of coronary incidents (take what you want from that) and turbo cancers, and our child bearers are feeling really desperate. That's all it takes. Messages.
I can’t argue with anything you said. Nice to see you in the neighborhood.
Ditto
Lil, great article! You didn't share a lot, and I'm not asking you to unless that's what you want, but I'm thankful that you found your way to the other side of whatever you went thru. I'm glad you had the support that you needed. I enjoy your articles so much!
It's a tough subject, and while I wish I could say I know where I stand, I think it must be decided on an individual basis. When I heard Canada was ready to allow younger people to do it (I understand they put a hold on that) I thought it was ridiculous. I too read the article about ter Beek, and I understood her views on some of it. But my faith tells me that it's God's decision when we leave this world, not ours, so for the most part I guess I'm against it. We have no way of knowing how God intends to use us, and if we cash out early on our own, we may be missing something that only He knows would have happened. It could be something truly wonderful. So I guess my faith tells me that I would not do this, but I can't speak for what others do. Just please leave the children alone!
I find it sad that no one could help her find meaning enough in her life for her to see something beyond the things that are wrong, that her existence has purpose.
I do as well. She didn't look so miserable in the pics they shared of her, and they said she had a boyfriend. I guess he wasn't enough to make life bearable for her.
Hey Pat, I agree with you. As a Catholic, I believe it’s God’s choice on when to move our life to the next home. Free’s up a lot of needless worry. Regarding having children, I am 9th of 10 kids and we grew up quite poor but I am glad my parents didn’t let that stop them. They had much less expectations of wealth than most Americans today.
Sounds like a good Catholic family! 😂 I'm only 3rd of 4 kids in my family, and we didn't grow up wealthy either. But I've not had any children myself. Married a man that had 3 already, and didn't want any more. There are days when I regret this, but nothing I can do about it at my age. For all I know I may not have had any if he had wanted more. Only God knows that.
I’m glad you had the blessing of multiple siblings. I feel for the children today without siblings, with few if any cousins. Who will they turn to as they get older and have no blood relatives?
I don't have any kids, currently, and I'm not really sympathetic to conservative exhortations that I should stop being selfish and have kids, to save civilization or whatever.
It's taken my entire adult life to get to a point of mental well-being, rather than living through a constant cycle of depression, anxiety, and feelings of worthlessness. I'm enjoying where I am, and I don't particularly want to put myself through the meatgrinder of parenthood.
And from the outside, it looks like a meatgrinder. Childhood seems to have basically become a nightmare torture-factory hell-carnival, leaving parents exhausted and kids suicidal. I'll pass.
I think there are a number of complex reasons why, but the Internet is central to a lot of it. (I'm lucky in that my childhood occurred before the Internet. Whatever my problems are, they would have been much worse if I'd been plopped down in front of a screen as a baby.)
We've decided that life ought to consist of sitting in a room, staring at an endless series of images on a computer. The Silicon Valley tech moguls are openly trying to replace us with AI, and we're treated as factory-farmed animals for marketing and advertising.
It's modern society's inherent nihilism finally showing its true face. Bertrand Russell said we ought to build the soul's habitation upon unyielding despair. Well, here it is. This is what it looks like.
The assisted suicide topic has been around for literally decades. I remember hearing discussions when I was young. It’s always come from the genesis of a situation you described on your friend. Of course the antithesis then was if you’re a believer the last act you commit on earth was breaking the “thou shalt not kill” commandment.
Fast forward to recent history. Now a person suffering doesn’t matter as much to some as the cost of keeping them alive. “Grandpa doesn’t even know what’s going on and it’s sucking his money right out of his account “,is what you’re likely to hear if the conversant is being honest. I know this to be true…I had the conversation two weeks ago. There are two competing teams. The government wants to tax Grandpa’s holdings and the heirs want to hide them so the government will pay for care and they can take possession of the stuff. As I said previously, my best friend is an attorney. I know what he deals in.
The individual you referenced has been the subject of many articles. I first heard about her from my wife who sees this sort of stuff on her Buzzfeed websites as she searches out videos of people saving dogs. She reads the stuff so I don’t have to. Conversely I tell her what’s going on in Ukraine. My own evaluation of her is that this is her 15 minutes of fame that we are all promised. I think she’s being used by these publications for their 2024 Newagey stories. She “can’t go anymore, and the healers she looked to for help can’t.. so of course the only thing left is to turn on the gas”. I suspect she doesn’t really want to try. Living is so much work. I guess it’s nice she has a boyfriend to hold her hand at the end. It appears he didn’t do her much good otherwise. If she had any pets hopefully she has provided for them. I would submit that in your case you wanted help. I know you said there were those around you but you let them help. Therein lies the difference.
The population thing is pretty simple. In my experience you “do the thing”, or “afford the thing” that is your highest priority. If buying a home, two nice cars, or four big screen tvs are your priorities that’s what you’ll do. If you want to put off having kids because “I need to take care of me”, then that’s what happens. It’s all a matter of commitment (that word again). The human race isn’t going to end. All races are not suffering from replacement issues. The U.S. will change significantly though. The “elites” talking about population issues are doing everything they can to make it happen. Witness their food destruction strategies. Anyone I’ve ever talked to who told me there were too many people, I’ve given the same answer. Start by ending yourself. The conversation usually stops there. Soon they’ll probably be able to do that in a kill room at the Mall of America. That will be great. The survivors can all go to the food court afterwards.
"That will be great. The survivors can all go to the food court afterwards."
Yes, you start feeling life is just that cheap. (Though I suspect it always has been.)
Maybe. I feel the value has diminished significantly over the years. I know the value of family and relationships certainly has.
Love your points and arguments. I have a Similar response to those that advocate for us engaging in a war; start by going over yourself. Regarding the friction of holding money or losing it to taxes; i’m there now and trying to learn more about how to setup trusts and gifts for my kids. Gov already takes about 35% and is trying to make it 50%.
Yup. They’ll suck you dry. Information is easy to find. Just do the thing though. A lot of people think they have a lot of time…right up to the time they don’t.
"I love Montana."
But it's the perfect climate for Pygmy Ponies!
I think you have noted that some of your objectives for writing were about honing your skills and hoping to make the world a more thoughtful and better place; and that numbers of readers were secondary. Since there is little I can do help with the foster set of objectives, I try to help with the secondary ones by reposting, adding comments that I intend to be of value or at least entertaining, and to encourage others to comment. My “likes” and comments are genuine though; I do it for your sake. I think you have very valuable messages and that the world benefits when more people read them. Any advice on what I can do to improve my objectives via-a-via your Substack, let me know.
You do all you can do, and I appreciate it greatly.
I made a gazillion typos on my comment but the one I definitely need to correct is to say “I don’t do it for your sake”.
That's a great compliment, if I'm reading it right. I'm tired. I've spent a chunk of the day working my way through the media for Friday. I'm a bit loopy.
But thank you so much.